[CSL board] bonuses

[Melissa M. Carino]

Once again, sorry for being MIA.  Once summer & sunshine hits, I tend to ditch my computer more.  ;)

Anyway, while I agree with what Josh & Fred have already expressed, I do understand the need for incentive and appreciation.

Suggestion: As a proponent for participatory grassroots processes, why not have a brainstorming session with all the CSL staff and share all ideas expressed by the Board?  Concerns and priorities will come out of that session from those who will be directly impacted.  Everyone would be on the same page, and awareness will be raised simultaneously.

Perhaps after the brainstorming session & consensus is determined, bring back proposal to the Board.  I would feel more confident in making a decision after the staff have been consulted & bring their own ideas to the table.

Just my $0.02,
~melissa


-----Original Message-----
From: divinerightofkings-bounces+melissa=carinoconsulting.com at lists.thecsl.org on behalf of Josh Harding
Sent: Tue 7/4/2006 9:36 AM
To: Dan MacNeil
Cc: CSL Board
Subject: Re: [CSL board] bonuses
 
Dan - In the last sentence of your email, you lump together, money, status
and accomplishment. I'd like to explore breaking them out. Money need not be
tied to status and accomplishment. In fact, I've heard you argue that it is
disconnected in the FOSS movement, and that fact is one of the its greatest
strengths.

I think recognizing accomplishment with status and rewards need not be
locked to a monetary gift. Can you think of any other ways that would
accomplish that? I don't see any problem with using the money in the process
of recognizing and applauding accomplishment, but surely we can come up with
a more creative (cool/fun) way to use that money than to just hand them a
gift certificate. An off the cuff example: the reward for getting code
accepted to the Debian project is an item of Debian gear (shirt, cd-holder,
mug, etc). We could also put a page up on our web site recognizing and
thanking the accomplishments of those among our ranks that have created code
good enough to be accepted into FOSS projects (as a side note - maybe we
should do that anyway - it could be a good marketing tool). I've lived with
money as tight as a VISTA, and understand how much $100 can mean, but if I
was handed a check for work well done during that time, I think I would have
been as likely to resent it as appreciate it, because I would feel like it
undermined the social statement I was making that I was 'not in it for the
money'. Conversely, a Debian shirt when I had successfully committed code to
Debian would make me very happy.

-Josh

On 7/4/06, Dan MacNeil <dan at thecsl.org> wrote:
>
> Karen Zgoda wrote:
> > what are your goals for  the lab?  Would a monetary bonus
> > advance all these ends?
>
> Right now we keep people for a about a year. I'd like to  keep people
> for 5 years so as to benefit from the learning they've done. Josh
> Harding and David Siegal both would have stuck with us for $30k per year.
>
> For somebody to make 30K per year (+ benefits) with us they need to be
> directly responsible for bringing in at least that much on contract
> work.  So far the big bang, your VISTA term is done, you need to live on
> contract work method hasn't worked.
>
> I want people to have a clear understanding that how they work effects
> success.
>
> Karen Zgoda wrote:
> > goal is to prepare VISTAs/work studys for their
> > post-service working environments.  Is this accurate?
>
> This is about 30-40% of my motivation.
>
> I was fortunate enough to spend years 19 through 27 paying my  rent by
> washing dishes, unloading trucks and and digging ditches. If I didn't
> show up for work @ 7:00am, I didn't get paid and my roommates started to
> talk about finding a more responsible replacement.
>
> The present group at the lab is relatively motivated, but there have
> been 2-3 VISTAs who've left the lab with the same lack of self-ownership
> that they entered with.
>
> Laura claims that a work ethic can't be taught, but I am more hopeful.
>
> Karen Zgoda wrote:
> > Or are you more concerned about their productivity,
>
> This is most of it. We exist to contribute to free software and non
> profit organizational efficiency. Improving people's skills is a means
> to that end, but not an end on its own.
>
> Paradoxically, I think that people get better skills with us than they
> would if our focus was job training.
>
> > People can be motivated by money short-term but it's the
> > intangible stuff that motivates them long-term and leads
> > to change.
>
> Yes, I agree with you. Longer term, it is a symbol and a metric.
>
> > Find out what they find motivating.  Have you asked them
> > what motivates them?
>
> Good point, not directly no I have not. Indirectly people have
> volunteered stuff like:
>
>         "contributing"
>         "accomplishing"
>         "getting experience"
>
> Fred Martin writes:
> > I thought from many conversations that no one was in it
> > for the  money.
>
> Yep, From:
>
>         http://thecsl.org/go/board/#purposes
>
> Non-profit purpose #4:
>
>         By our example, we will encourage a culture
>         that measures success based on accomplishment
>         not wealth.
>
> That doesn't mean we are oblivious to money. We can keep people for 3-5
> years, if we can pay them enough to own a car and pay the rent on an
> apartment. This is not wealth.
>
> I hope some bonus money now will help people be ready to keep working
> with us when when their wage subsidy ends. (graduation or post VISTA).
>
> Alternatively, if people's pay depends a little on their work, they may
> be prepared to be their own boss when they leave us.
>
> Fred Martin writes:
> > Not that a few "bob" (as they say here  in Ireland
> > where I'm  staying) will make much difference.
>
> If you are making $70,000 a year, $100 is not much. If you are making
> $16,000, it is quite a bit.
>
> Even when a person doesn't "need" the money, a little money is a
> powerful symbol, a sign that ones  work is valued enough to take the
> trouble to pay for it, that it makes a difference.
>
> Fred Arden, did great work at the Calab foundation's chestnut square
> lab. As a retired engineer and investor, he didn't need the money, but
> he choose to volunteer with Caleb because they paid for his parking.
>
> I've often been unhappy volunteering for people who used my labor
> because it was free rather than because they needed it.
>
> Fred Martin writes:
> > In other words, if there are motivational problems, then
> > they'd be  deeper than such can be solved with a bonus at
> > the end of the month.
>
> I don't think there are problems.
>
> I do think there are potential benefits when people feel that their
> reward (money, status, accomplishment) is tied directly to their work.
>
> The fact that our rent and much of our wages aren't tied to any
> particular set of results gives us some freedom to do stuff that
> couldn't be done otherwise. It also potentially blinds us to work people
>   want enough to pay for.
>
>
>
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